#8. Stories Seldom Told: Smita Tharoor on Cultural Identity, Unconscious Bias & Listening Without Judgment

What happens when your cultural identity spans the breadth of an entire subcontinent? Smita Tharoor takes us on a journey from Mumbai to Kolkata, Rajasthan to Kerala—and into the heart of what it means to live, work, and connect across cultures.

An expert on cultural behaviour and organisational change, Smita reframes unconscious bias as “making judgments without realising that you do.” She explains how these instinctive perceptions—while natural—can lead to both positive and negative outcomes, and why awareness is key to fairer decision-making.

As the host of Stories Seldom Told—heard in 108 countries—Smita shares voices the world might otherwise miss, from a woman minister in Kabul to a triple-amputee photographer who calls himself “the one-armed chef.” Her message? Approach the world with openness, curiosity, and a clean slate, and you’ll discover more meaningful ways to make a difference.

From travel tips for first-time visitors to India to reflections on resilience, inclusion, and the power of listening without judgment, this is a conversation to inspire anyone ready to expand their worldview.

Smita Tharoor was born and raised in India and now lives in London. She’s the host of the Stories Seldom Told podcast, a Motivational Keynote Speaker, TEDx Speaker, Coach, and a thought leader in Conscious Inclusion & Unconscious Bias.

🎧 Listen to the Stories Seldom Told podcast: Spotify

Highlights

• Born in Mumbai, raised in Kolkata, educated in Rajasthan, with roots in Kerala
• Grew up in an inclusive, non-judgmental home in 1970s India
• Advises global organisations on cultural behaviour and organisational change
• Hosts Stories Seldom Told podcast, reaching listeners in 108 countries
• Explains unconscious bias as the human brain’s natural protective instinct
• Advocates big-picture thinking before narrowing your focus to create change
• Travel insight: India offers everything from beaches and mountains to heritage cities and wildlife reserves—choose based on your interests
• Believes resilience grows when challenges are faced positively

Connect with Smita

• Instagram: instagram.com/sm

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to World Changers HQ
• 1:22 Meet Smita Tharoor
• 4:00 Growing Up Across India
• 7:27 Exploring India's Diversity
• 13:09 Understanding Unconscious Bias
• 18:52 Stories Seldom Told Podcast
• 23:13 Overcoming Trauma and Making Change
• 25:51 Advice for Aspiring World Changers
• 29:38 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 0:02

Hey, world Changers, welcome to your podcast. I'm Amiki Carroll and I travel the world with a sense of adventure and purpose, exploring, learning, having fun and meeting remarkable individuals who are transforming their communities and beyond. Join me as we dive into the inspiring journeys of changemakers from every corner of the globe, tuning in weekly for stories that might just change your life, ignite your passion and show you how ordinary people can create extraordinary impact. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform and follow us on social media at World Changers PC, and get ready to take off. Hello and welcome back to World Changers HQ, the podcast where we travel the globe to uncover stories of extraordinary people making a lasting impact in their communities. Today we're taking a virtual trip to the vibrant, bustling heart of India, delhi, where our guest has been visiting, even though she lives in the UK. But you know, it doesn't matter where you are, you're a world changer everywhere. I'll let her introduce herself, but in the meantime, it's such a pleasure to have you with us, and so Smita did. I say that correctly.

Smita Tharoor: 1:24

Yeah, close, it's only five letters, but only the problem is the pronunciation. If you read it, you don't often pronounce it correctly. So it's Smita. As you already said, I live in London but I'm happening to be in the busy. I think it's cold in London today, but it's give or take 32 degrees. In Delhi. It's hot, it's humid and for now I'm actually pleased to be in Delhi because I don't much like the cold.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 1:50

I mean, it is a little bit better, one degree better than it was yesterday. So it's all of 16 degrees today, so not too bad, but the good news is that it's dry and that makes a massive difference, but gone compared to your 30 degree exactly yeah, what do I do?

Smita Tharoor: 2:08

so let me tell you a little bit about myself.

Smita Tharoor: 2:10

I advise organizations of cultural behavior, behavioral change, organizational change.

Smita Tharoor: 2:16

But what I am most fond of doing, carol and you and I've already discovered that is that we are our twins on the, a different planet, because I do something very similar to you, that's very close to my heart, and I host a podcast and I interview people around the world to share their stories seldom told, and the podcast is called Stories Seldom Told. And essentially, I suppose, in terms of what do I do, the idea of our unconscious biases or the fact that we make implicit assumptions or judgments, implicit instinctive opinions we might find that we have better relationships, we communicate better, we connect with people better and so on, and that's essentially what I do in terms of communicating with organizations. But I have now, as I mentioned, you're hosting a podcast, and to me that is what is giving me the most meaning. And right now, what am I doing? I've actually, having said I host a podcast, I've, literally two weeks ago, decided to take a break for the next six months or so so that I can write a book.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 3:40

Wow, that's a lot right there and thank you so much for sharing that. That's wonderful and I want to be able to lean into a number of things that you said. But just before I explore the unconscious bias bits, can I ask what inspired you to begin this line of work? What got you to this place? What got you to this place?

Smita Tharoor: 4:02

Thank you for asking, because I've obviously reflected a lot on that. So just a little preamble about me as a human being, because that's what's relevant. So I was born in what was called Bombay but now called Mumbai, and then I grew up in Calcutta, now called Kolkata, in Bengal. I went to university in a college in Rajasthan and I come from Kerala. So now, if you can visualize the map of India, I was born in the West Coast, grew up in the East Coast, went to university in Northwest and come from the Southwest.

Smita Tharoor: 4:39

India is a bit like Europe in terms of language and culture. So if you were to think of Europeans, they're all different shades of white, they're mostly Christian, but there are other religions too. But that's about it. They speak different languages, different culture, different cuisine, all sorts of things. Same Different shades of brown are mostly Hindu, but many, many other religions. That's where the similarities end. India then becomes a melting pot of language, of culture, of cuisine, of ideas and so on. There isn't a one India, it's a multiple India.

Smita Tharoor: 5:12

When I was growing up, I didn't know. When you're growing up, you take your growing up for granted. You don't think, oh, I'm doing this today. You just live your life and it's only a reflection in my 20s that I realized wow, aren't I lucky. But I've had this opportunity because most young people, unless their parents have to travel on work, get born in one place and go to school in one place and go to university in the same place and then may or may not, get into a relationship and a job in the same place. And there I am wandering around. And then, in addition to that and this is even more important to me and a very crucial point is that I genuinely grew up in a home where it was an inclusive, accepting, nonjudgmental home. Now Unite took that for granted. We're talking about the 70s in India. Now, even today and I love India, it's the country of my birth Even today, we can have a lot of conscious biases where people look at other people based on their gender or the color of their skin or their religion or their caste or the good kind of things that are very common in India, or sexuality, whereas in my home, for example, my brother is the firstborn child, but at no point was he given favoritism, and I know many people in the West, for example, make an assumption that all Indians love boys and don't have much to do with girls.

Smita Tharoor: 6:42

It's the same for us. You see where I'm going, so these kinds of things. And then when you think you're all grown up and you know it's in my 20s and I moved to London and it's only in London when I look back at home and think about how long I started reflecting that, I go my wow, so that was my problem. Does that make sense? The more I started thinking about it, the Does that make sense. The more I started thinking about it, the more I wanted to do work in this.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 7:06

Yes, of course I mean for those who don't know, there are more people in India than any other country in the world Over a billion people. It's overtaking China yeah, 1.3 billion, Can you imagine Overtaking China? And so it's literally a whole continent by itself. So I really like that. You compared it to, you know, Europe, and so you'll expect, with that kind of population, it will be very diverse. I'm really interested in the fact that you have all of these amazing experiences born in one place, grew up in one place, live somewhere else. Tell me, for a first-time visitor to India, because I think it's definitely somewhere that everyone needs to go to where would you advise them to go to first, to visit first?

Smita Tharoor: 7:52

It depends very much on who the you is. I will be passing that question, okay, because there are some people who want to See the thing about the other. In fact, I'm going to give you a slightly different answer to your question, rather than a complete answer. The other wonderful advantage of India because it's such a huge country in terms of size as well is that it's for everything. So you've got snow-capped mountains you've got it. You want desert you've got it. You want a beach you've got it. You want what we call hill stations, which are up in the hills. So we have tea estates with tea and coffee plantations you've got it. You want an investment reserve you've got it. You want temples You've got it. You want temples, you've got it. You want fabulous mosques You've got it. You want the World Heritage Building at Taj Mahal You've got it.

Smita Tharoor: 8:38

So the point I'm making is what is it that the huge person who's asking me is looking for? I have only very busy six months. I need two weeks in India and I want to just rest and rejuvenate. I would suggest a slow holiday. So perhaps you know Ayurveda, which started, is now becoming increasingly popular in the West, which is the holistic naturopathy medication you know massages and so on which comes from Kerala. So go to Kerala, have some Ayurvedic treatment, maybe go for a flip and preserve, maybe go and relax on a beach. The other hand I mean next week I'm going to Kolkata because I grew up there and I love that city. Yeah, and this is a UNESCO World Heritage Festival going to be happening in late October and it's called Durga Puja.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 9:27

Nice.

Smita Tharoor: 9:28

And it's going to be crazy and wild and vibrant. I grew up at a six-month exhausting time. You probably don't want to go there, do you see what I'm saying? It all depends on what you want.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 9:37

Of course. And listen, we can't escape this because Indian food is very popular in the UK, for sure. So if you are a foodie and you just wanted somewhere to experience good food without coming back with a deli belly For those who don't know what that is, you probably don't want to know.

Smita Tharoor: 9:57

But yeah, where would be the Montezuma's? Louange is the other name for it, really, yeah, yeah. But then again I would say do you like Greek food, swedish food, italian food, french food, german food? The food is all different, wow. So there's my question again Indian food.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 10:14

where's the best place for Indian food? What does that?

Smita Tharoor: 10:17

even mean Do you want to get there, because, depending on your surroundings, it's careful. You've got coconut trees and beaches, so coconut is an essential ingredient to pretty much everything you eat. Now you have found things on the table, all tastes different. They all have coconut you eat. If I have found things on the table, all tastes different, they all have coconut. Bengal has a lot of fish. You go to Rajasthan, it's all. Punjab, for example, is a tandoori chicken that a lot of people in the West know. You go to Bombay, mumbai it's different food again.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 10:44

So it depends on what kind of food you like and what kind of adventure you're after, because honestly, I don't think even a week or two weeks will do it justice, so you can't visit everywhere. So multiple trips are recommended. If that's it, that is exactly.

Smita Tharoor: 11:00

I think it'd be overwhelming otherwise, because india is a very overwhelming case for somebody who's never been very overwhelming. It can slap you in the face. Yeah, it might embrace you when you fall in love with it. You know, because that's the heat and the smells and the dust. You know, when I come out of that airport I get slapped. But I love the slap. It's a lovely, affectionate slap and I want to harvest the smells and the dirt and the moisture and the humidity and I'm okay with that.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 11:26

Okay, but a lot of people won't be. So it's a gentle wake-up slap that kind of helps your senses come alive. So for China, I'll give you twinkle little stars. Okay, okay, all right, fantastic. And most people, when they think about India, will only think, oh, the Taj Mahal. But there's much more to see, isn't there?

Smita Tharoor: 11:48

The example I was giving. Next week, when I'm going to Bengal, specifically to the city of Calcutta or Kolkata, where we're going to, there are these how do I describe it? Because UNESCO has just marked it as a World Heritage Festival. I think they call it Okay, and it's essentially what's a bundle in English. I'm trying.

Smita Tharoor: 12:16

I can't get, English is my first language with some words I only know in another language. Go for it a large display and each display, the center will be of the goddess durga, and that is the festival is in her name. Okay, but they make the display around her to be completely crazy and wild and different. So, for example, once they had Princess Diana sitting next to her. Another time she was sitting on top of a pyramid in Egypt. Okay, and so each of these pictures, you know. When we've concluded our interview, just for fun, carol, I'll send you some photographs of the place for you to really appreciate how wild the place can look. This podcast is not going out till a while. I'll send you some photographs that I take myself.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 12:55

That would be wonderful. We'd love to follow your travels and your adventures. That would be so good. Thank you, that's really helpful. Okay, well, look, that's great. I'm sure most people listening now would be really excited about visiting India. If we could pivot back to your work and what you do, one of the things that I really want to explore is just the subject of unconscious bias, because it's been such a buzzword in the West, particularly for the last I don't know decade or so, with a lot of organizations and people being mandated to take it. I know that it could produce results that are not desired, as it were, and if there's one thing I've learned about in my line of work, I know that unconscious bias actually two things. Number one, we all have it, and number two, it's not always a bad thing. Exactly, I don't want people immediately feeling defensive when they hear that phrase. So can you speak a little bit to each of those two points please?

Smita Tharoor: 14:05

In fact, the reason why I work so hard and long with the idea of unconscious bias is exactly for the reasons you say. The idea of unconscious bias is exactly for the reasons you say Because, unfortunately, because it's fashion right Straight jeans, flared jeans, ripped jeans, whatever the fashion might be people go along with that and there was a time when having unconscious bias training was dear regard. This has got to be done. It's the best thing. This is widespread, x, y, z. Now it's the other extreme. Oh no, it's all bad. Nobody has any unconscious biases. We're talking about in the West you know I live in London as you do so we're talking about in the UK, in the US, places like that. I work in Europe as well, whereas what I'm trying to say is hang on a minute, don't call it unconscious bias, call it making judgments without realizing that. You do Call it being assumptive. I don't mind what words you use, because these are only words, and what the words do don't suggest what the context is or the content is. So, essentially, all of us, because of how we were brought up and our life experiences good, bad and ugly we will, without realizing it, want to protect ourselves, to keep safe. There isn't a single person who is listening to this interview who says no, I don't want to be safe. I mean, even if that person is an adventure thriller seeker and is jumping or whatever it is they're doing, they still like the idea of feeling safe. Now we instinctively, unconsciously our brain does this because our brain is a very powerful thing that we can't leave it home one day because we're tired. Take it go. And our brain protects us from making perhaps the wrong judgment. All of us instinctively say hey, I've got good instinct. Anyone out there who hasn't got a good instinct? Raise your hand. Clearly nobody's going to raise their hand. And so what is that instinct? It is those assumptions, those behavior patterns that we mark within ourselves that we don't know that we have. It could be positive, as you correctly said, or unfair or negative. So I positive, as you correctly said, or unfair or negative. So I mean, just as an example, if, for example, what kind of example could I give?

Smita Tharoor: 16:20

I don't know where your listeners are, but as soon as I'm in Delhi, I'm going to give an Indian example. Let's just say, because I did as I mentioned to you, I was born in Bombay and grew up in Calcutta. So let's imagine I'm from Kerala. So I'm from Kerala and I'm growing up in Calcutta and my best friend is from Bengal. Okay, and she and I are best friends. I was in the girls' early school. She and I are best friends, yeah, and then when we're class eight, class nine, she turns around and she bullies me. She bullies me very, very bad.

Smita Tharoor: 16:51

I'm making this up, by the way, and I fast forward to today and I am recruiting for my own company. Yeah, and I've got last three interviews. And one is from, I don't know, from London, white, english, london. Yeah. The other is Indian but has clearly got a Bengali name, but probably spy or a British girl. Gender was irrelevant, but looking at the name, because I'm from India, I know it's a Bengali name. Gender is irrelevant. Yeah, my natural instinct would be not to hire that Bengali. So that one reason of what I felt was extreme trauma when I was 10 years old. Yes, or role reversal that best friend is still my best friend. Yeah, and I know Bengali cuisine. I've been to Calcutta hundreds of times. I love all things Bengali. I've learned some of the language. X, y, z. Now that person comes over for an interview and my implicit, unconscious bias back brain, as I call it, the amygdala, the one that's up here, yeah, and say, hey, I think you'll be safe if you hire this person, because this person's got a bengali name.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 17:54

He could be awfully useless yeah, but that's not the point. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and most times we don't even realize that those things are feeding into the decisions that we make all the time. Yeah, I really like that example. That's really brought it home. Just from the work you've done, can you tell me what impact you've seen, you know, and how that's changed your perspective on what's possible? And it might be that maybe you've seen challenges, but yeah, be good to together thank you.

Smita Tharoor: 18:29

Thank you for that, carol, because I mean, this is sort of this whole idea of of conscious inclusion or whatever words we want to choose in the west these days. Yeah, very much part of my dna. I think about it a lot, I think about it all the time and that's the reasons I the reasons I started the podcast. I've been told, you know, at Christmas time, spotify send you all singing, all dancing, a thing telling me where my podcast is heard. And I know last, now, last December, I know next December, that it's being heard in 108 countries. I have not been to those 108 countries.

Smita Tharoor: 19:02

That's the beauty of having, you know, mod cons like Zoom to have conversations on, and there were some of those countries that I would never want to go to. You know, for example, I'm trying to think of where it was. I interviewed a woman, a woman minister, in Kabul, in Afghanistan. Maybe I will go someday, I don't know, but it's not on my, you know, on my travel list. Yeah, it isn't a place. I have interviewed somebody in trinidad, I've interviewed somebody in mexico and I've introduced somebody in new zealand, and so you know. And then I've got listeners, when you look at that list, in kazakhstan, in moscow, in countries that I've never been to.

Smita Tharoor: 19:41

A lot of them write to me because you can, you know, because you can communicate, and they say, oh my God, you know this is, and of course they're listening to somebody. So someone in Trinidad I'm just making it up could be listening to an interview that I've interviewed somebody in Mexico. Yeah.

Smita Tharoor: 19:58

But there's somebody in another part of the world is writing to me saying they've heard my interview and they appreciate and this is what I've learned too, which is the same thing that the world is a small place, yeah, but more importantly, because the whole purpose of my podcast interviews is not about pointing fingers. It is about me, the listener, reflecting on themselves. Yes, the listener reflecting on themselves. Yes, asking myself how is it that I can change as a human being based on what I've heard and those are the emails, and under you know the answers. I'm getting back and I just find I couldn't do that going into one office. I'm doing some work here in india, too, and I just spoke to a group of 40 people, 40 corporate leaders, but if two of those corporate leaders make a difference, that's not the same thing.

Smita Tharoor: 20:48

These people, who are just ordinary people like you and I, living in different parts of the world, are reflecting on themselves and are trying to make change and to me that is such a powerful thing and I feel blessed that I'm able to have these conversations with them.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 21:06

Yeah, I love it Honestly. I mean, that's such a powerful real-world example of positive change and your inspiring hope and, hopefully, action as well. Can I just ask how do you stay motivated and balanced while working on such sometimes controversial subject?

Smita Tharoor: 21:26

you know yeah, very much so, and uh, in fact, I I mean you sent controversial. I just suddenly remembered an extremely powerful interview that I had with a woman. Her name is kate nichols. You can, you can find it and listen to it, and she shares I'm giving it away now, so maybe you all listen to it she shares a time when, unfortunately, she was raped multiple times, but she then also shares the fact that she did not hold. She did not, you know, when I was talking about unconscious bias, how we want to protect ourselves. She did not pull the entire country out because of that one experience, however traumatic it was. This was Botswana. Yeah, she loves the country, she still loves the people and her worldview has changed because of that traumatic experience.

Smita Tharoor: 22:13

But how do I stay? The truth is, and I and I, I really think that, and I want the listeners to appreciate this as well If something, whatever the thing is, matters to you enough, then you will always find reasons to work on it and be motivated. Some days I'm utterly exhausted, but other days I am full of vigor and often the days when I've done the interviews, to me it's a blessing, it's a learning. For me, it's a blessing, it's a learning. It's a me. For me it's a learning. Forget about you know the other person listening or the listeners who are listening to my podcast. You're having the privilege to hear these stories from many, most of the people I have never met in my life and probably will never meet. It's such a huge privilege. So what is my motivation? However challenging the stories are, world is challenging. That's life. It's cyclical. We are going to have a lot of downs and hopefully a lot of ups, and it really depends on how we manage the downs if we can survive the ups. That's how I see it.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 23:18

Yeah, I love that and I honestly, I completely identify with that. Yeah, I love that and I honestly, I completely identify with that. I mean, I think I've been to about 93 countries and the one thing I can say, definitely of my experiences of traveling and West, or who live in the West, even though we might be ethnically from other places, I think it's a question for me of thinking you didn't have shoes and then you meet every so often someone without feet and it makes you realize you know what Life happens to all of us. Of course, it's relative, but the reality is everyone goes through challenges and so it's not really about what's happening, but what you do. You know with what's happened. And, yeah, I feel so bad for people who have stories like Gates, but also have massive respect for them because in spite of that, they're still able to overcome and keep going.

Smita Tharoor: 24:26

Just randomly. You know this WhatsApp, people send you random things and somebody sent and I can't remember who it was, so, whoever you are, thank you for sending it sent me a quote from Nietzsche, the philosopher, and I'm completely paraphrasing, but because of what you just said, essentially, the fact is, is what was being suggested is that if we have challenges and not just plain sailing, yeah, the more challenges we have, if we address them positively, the more successful we. That is actually a good thing, rather than challenges as a negative thing yeah and those are the stories that that my speakers share.

Smita Tharoor: 25:03

I mean, there was one gentleman who's a photographer who went to Afghanistan and lost three limbs Three limbs, wow. He has one arm. He's on Instagram, he continues to be a photographer. He's also a chef and he proudly calls himself the one-armed chef and he is inspirational. And you know, who am I to make any judgment of any of these people when we've got so many incredible, wonderful stories, yeah, that they can share with us? You know each of us different stories yes, I so enjoyed meeting you.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 25:35

Know people like you, ordinary people doing extraordinary things. You know world changes around the world. Tell me, um, just as we begin to wrap this up, what advice would you give to someone who's listening, who wants to make a difference but doesn't know where to start?

Smita Tharoor: 25:50

I would say don't hone your. It's interesting because just yesterday I'm also teaching at a university and I had a guest lecture and after that, first-year undergrad students came to me to have a one-to-one conversation and they're also working with NGOs. They're lawyers, first-year undergrad, and they said what should we focus on, what should we narrow our focus on? And I said no, no, no, no, no. And I'm saying the same thing to all our listeners Go to any situation with an open mind, with a clean slate, and work really hard with being non-judgmental. Now, that's easy for me to say but extremely difficult to actually practice in real life. And the older we get, the harder it gets, because we've had more experiences and more stories in our head that will influence us instinctively.

Smita Tharoor: 26:38

But if you're able to go into x place and just feel, oh yeah, I'm really listening, you know, listen without judgment yes what alone will start making you appreciate and understand how you can make a difference, and especially if you are starting out in your career. Slade, these three young women who spoke to me were 18 years old. Um, maybe people who are listening to me are 25 years old or could be 45 years old, but it doesn't matter. But depending on where you're at and what you're looking at, try and look at it in a big picture idea, and the more you look at the big picture, the more you'd appreciate what within it really matters to you and then start holding your skills to make a difference on that one small thing, whatever that x might be.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 27:27

But you won't know if you go straight for the jugular without expanding your worldview and really listening, without judgment love that start from where you are and honestly, I think if we don't care about who takes the credits, it doesn't matter. You can be part of the solution. Just contribute what you can when you can, how you can, and you just don't know. You may only be starting a fire or you might be doing something more, but either way, I think passion always attracts more passion. Smitha, thank you so much. How can people find you if they want to hear more about what you're doing, staying in touch?

Smita Tharoor: 28:10

I mean, I'm there. I'm on my name Smita Tharoor, I'm there on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter or X or whatever they call themselves these days. I also have a company page on Facebook. So I'm everywhere and I'm very happy to accept anybody who reaches out to me. And if you want to hear my podcast, you can find that. Anywhere you listen to podcasts, whether it's Apple or Spotify or YouTube or whatever, and the podcast is called Stories Self-Told.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 28:38

Wow, what an incredible conversation. Thank you so much, smitha, for sharing your journey and the amazing work that you're doing. Also for telling us a little bit about India. Exactly, yes, I know your passion and commitments. Big travelogue yeah. They're truly inspiring and I'm sure our listeners will leave today with a renewed sense of purpose.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 29:02

And to all of you tuning in, remember change does start with each one of us. Whether it's in your community or across the globe, there's always an opportunity to make a difference. If Smitha has inspired you, take that first step today. Start small, stay consistent and remember that we're capable of being world changers in our own unique way. Thank you for joining us on this episode of World Changers HQ.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 29:26

I'm Amiki Carroll and I can't wait to bring you more stories of extraordinary impact next time. Until then, keep traveling, keep changing the world and keep making a difference. Goodbye, goodbye. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of World Changes Podcast. I hope you're feeling as inspired as I am by today's conversation. Remember the power to create change is within each of us. If you were inspired by today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, share it with a friend and leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word and inspire even more world changers really helps to spread the word and inspire even more world changers. And be sure to follow us on social media at World Changers PC, for updates, behind the scenes content and more inspiring stories. Until next time, keep exploring, keep making a difference and remember you can be a world changer.

Humanise Live: 30:25

The World Changes podcast is produced by Humanized Live and presented by Amiki Carroll. Visit theavocadofoundationorg to find out more about how the Avocado Foundation is tackling global inequality through education, stewardship and financial literacy.