#10. Education as Empowerment & Empathy: How This Global Advocate Is Decolonizing Academia & Spreading Quality Teaching

In this episode, we meet an anthropologist, teacher trainer, and civic advocate whose mission is to ensure that education becomes a tool for equity, empathy, and empowerment. From a childhood in a Wi-Fi–less Mexican village to leading service-learning initiatives across Europe, Diana Chavez’s story reveals how privilege, sacrifice, and purpose can transform not only individual lives but entire communities.

She explains what it truly means to decolonize academia—from rethinking the language of history to recognising multiple narratives—and why apologies from colonising nations remain crucial for healing. We also explore her vision for ethical volunteering, designed to dismantle the “saviour complex” and foster genuine cultural exchange, as well as her work spreading quality education through teacher training and NGO leadership.

We explore:

• A life shaped by service: Thailand (youth development), India (public health in the Himalayas), and Europe (teacher training & NGO leadership)
• Why quality education matters in an information-saturated world—critical thinking, media literacy, and empathy
• Decolonizing education: the power of language, multiple historical narratives, and why apologies matter
• Ethical volunteering vs. the “saviour complex”—how to empower communities through true exchange
• Travel with context: richer ways to experience Mexico and Amsterdam (including decolonial tours)
• Diana’s current roles: Director, VIA Netherlands (SCI), and Teacher Trainer/Mentor at Europass Teacher Training Academy

Diana Chavez is a Mexican-American anthropologist, teacher trainer, and cultural advocate based in the Netherlands. With over fifteen years of global service-learning experience, her work spans youth development, gender and reproductive health, climate justice, and intercultural civic engagement.

She is the Director of VIA Netherlands (the Dutch branch of Service Civil International) and a mentor at Europass Teacher Training Academy, where she equips educators across Europe with tools for professional and personal growth.

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/diananchavez
• Europass Profile: teacher

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to World Changers Podcast
• 1:03 Meet Diana: Anthropologist & Global Citizen
• 5:14 The Places that Shape Identity & Opportunity
• 8:32 The Importance of Quality Education Globally
• 12:51 Decolonizing Academia
• 16:57 The Need for Accountability For Past Injustices
• 20:14 Exploring Mexico Beyond Tourist Spots
• 25:15 Empowerment Volunteering Over Saviour Complex
• 29:00 Amsterdam: Canals, Culture and Controversies

Transcript

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 0:02

Hey World Changers, welcome to your podcast. I'm Amiki Carroll and I travel the world with a sense of adventure and purpose, exploring, learning, having fun and meeting remarkable individuals who are transforming their communities and beyond. Join me as we dive into the inspiring journeys of changemakers from every corner of the globe, tuning in weekly for stories that might just change your life, ignite your passion and show you how ordinary people can create extraordinary impact. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform and follow us on social media at World Changers PC and get ready to take off. Hello everyone, and welcome back to World Changers podcast, where I travel the world meeting and interviewing ordinary people who are doing extraordinary things in the world and in their communities, and very often beyond, as our guest today will show. I'm Amiki Carol Akumi, and joining me today is Diana. Diana is an anthropologist, an anthropologist who lives in the Netherlands and works there right now. So, diana, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Diana Chavez: 1:18

Yeah, thank you so much and thank you for having me. So, yes, I'm an anthropologist and I have been studying and working now here in the Netherlands for having me. So, yes, I'm an anthropologist and I have been studying and working now here in the Netherlands for five years. I'm originally from Mexico, but I have grown up in the United States and I have also done work in Thailand and India, and now I do a lot of work in different European countries and that's what has led me to my work here in the Netherlands.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 1:46

Fantastic. I'm really pleased that you mentioned your heritage, because clearly people will hear from your voice, your accent, that it's not Dutch. So tell me, what exactly do you do right now in the Netherlands and what's led you to this NGO? I mean, in your life, what's the background story to where you are right now doing what you're doing?

Diana Chavez: 2:09

Yeah, well, service work has been something really important to me since I started doing my studies and my bachelor's. I have a bachelor's in sociology and that work has led me to do a lot of volunteer work in Thailand. And that work has led me to do a lot of volunteer work in Thailand, where I got to immerse myself in the culture and I worked in youth development. I also got to teach English and that really opened my eyes to exploring the world, realizing that there's so much more outside of what we live in, and I really enjoy learning from different cultures in. And I really enjoy learning from different cultures, and so working in Thailand really showed me that there really is a lot of support that you can provide to different communities that are doing really incredible work. And it gave me some confidence to go to India and do different work.

Diana Chavez: 2:58

In Thailand I got to work in education and in India I got to work in the public health sector. I lived in the Himalayas. It was a really beautiful experience because my the view from my home was the third biggest peak in the world Mount Kanchenjunga. So it was a really beautiful experience that led me to have an interest in permaculture and climate justice, environmental and it solidified what I wanted to do with my life, and that was to study anthropology, because I took a gap year between my bachelor studies and my master's because I really wanted to know what I wanted to study and, through my time in Thailand and India and learning the languages and the cultures, it's what led me to the Netherlands, because I applied to do my master's in anthropology, for cultural and social anthropology at the University of Amsterdam.

Diana Chavez: 3:52

This was in January of 2020.

Diana Chavez: 3:55

So almost five years now that I've been in the Netherlands and, yes, that's why I don't have an accent I think my accent has shifted now as I'm learning multiple languages and also trying to navigate the Dutch language here, which is something I'm actively working on as well.

Diana Chavez: 4:12

So, yeah, this is what has led me now to working in the Netherlands and continuing my work in the service-based learning, and I have worked for NGOs before in my work in the US, in Thailand and in India, and I found myself again yet in another NGO here which is called Via Netherlands. It's part of a bigger NGO network that's in many branches around the world. It's called Service Civil International and it's an NGO focused on peace work and humanitarian rights, social justice rights and mostly on volunteering as well countering these issues through volunteer work and I found myself now being the director of this NGO. I'm also on the board and it has allowed me to do my passions, because I do work as a teacher, but I can also follow my passions through the NGO on more on specific social justice issues as well.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 5:08

You're a very accomplished young woman who's been in so many different places, and I'm really intrigued by the fact that you're made in Mexico but then outsourced to the world, as it were. I mean, I've been to Mexico Cancun, where most tourists end up, and I had a great time, absolutely. But can I just check with you how your homeland literally shaped you as a person, how Mexico shaped you and the work that you do right now?

Diana Chavez: 5:40

Humongous. It's a privilege that I have in the way. Also, I was born I love how you said, made in Mexico, because that is exactly my life story. I actually, for my master thesis, did an autoethnography where I got to write about my own lived experience with higher education education. Because I realized that because I didn't grow up in Mexico, I only lived there until I was five, five years old and then I moved to the United States. That I always wondered in my life, would I have had the same opportunities had I grown up in Mexico? This is a question that lingered my whole life, to the point that I ended up doing my master thesis on it and I got some answers and I realized that no, it would have been very difficult to have the higher education that I have now had.

Diana Chavez: 6:31

I lived in this specific area that I lived in in Mexico, because in Mexico and in many places in Latin America, where you are born in your own country decides whether or not you even get an opportunity for higher education, and in the area that I live in and that my family is from, we still don't have Wi-Fi. By the way, in this specific area, if you drive 10 minutes down, then of course you do, but we live in a very small village with a river and five family houses, so other families live there as well. And so my mother knew that she wanted something better for me and she never had a chance to have an education, because in mexico for females, um, if you once you are in the sixth grade, then you have to pay, and my mother is one of 12 children, so, uh, she had to work and help out with the family, so she never got to pursue further than you know, past elementary, and she wanted better for me and that, literally education is what pushed her to have a better life for me in the United States. And, being an American citizen, I always knew how much privilege I had over my family and my cousins because we have such a big family. So I never took it for granted. I always said I can do it, I'm an American citizen.

Diana Chavez: 7:50

Yes, there is a lot of difficulties along the way, but I always had this in mind that I should take advantage of these opportunities. So Mexico has always been something that I carry very heavily with me. Where I advocate, I speak, I share how I love Mexico through my clothing. Express everything like these hoops is a very popular Mexican statement that we have, so it's a big part of me and I get to take it in all these countries I get to visit People also get to know. Of course I have the influence of growing up in the United States, but my heritage it's Mexico, so people also get to learn how it is in Mexico. They always ask me out of curiosity. So it's a big part of my life.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 8:30

Wow, Thank you so much. That's really helpful. And what would you say, just from your background and experience as both a teacher and an anthropologist? The importance of education is.

Diana Chavez: 8:43

It's so important, especially where we are right now politically in the world. More than ever, I realized how important education is, and I'm very lucky in how I've gotten to, I think, because I always liked going to school. My mom, since I was a kid, she always made sure that school was something I enjoyed, and now that I get to teach it, I realize how important it is for people to have quality education and access to quality education, which is something that's very difficult for many countries I mean, we talk about Afghanistan Women don't have the right to an education, and it's only going worse in many other countries as well, worse in many other countries as well. And so right now, that's actually my mission and my passion is to work on providing quality health and education to ethnic minorities or to marginalized communities, because those are the communities that are being left behind, and it's really unfortunate where we are now, because we have so much access to education through social media, yet we consume different things, so there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation, and so right now is something that I'm heavily focusing on within my ngo and also, uh, with the work that I'm doing as a teacher.

Diana Chavez: 9:56

So I'm a teacher trainer, so it's a very unique job because I get to work with european teachers. Um and uh it and it's a program called Europass Teacher Training Academy and it's this program here in Europe where teachers get to take a professional developmental course in different cities around Europe and they take courses on environmental education, 21st century skills, soft skills for strong teachers, how to empower girls in STEM. So we have over 300 courses. These teachers get to take this course for five days, for a whole week. They come to Amsterdam, they pick this is where I'm working and then they get to explore the city but also take this course, and so I get. It's an incredible opportunity that I have in front of me.

Diana Chavez: 10:43

I have 15 teachers from all over Europe and we talk about education and we talk about educational systems in Bulgaria, many in Eastern Europe, in France, in Germany, and so everybody's from different countries talking about how much they care for their students and education and we talk about really important topics. So I feel really inspired every day, learning from these teachers and the difficulties that they have, and we have this sort of universal language when we speak, even though we're from different countries, just talking about education and realizing how important it is as educators to continuously learn and become better. But it's a big part of where we should be in the world. It should be centered and focused. Education should be something that we should focus on. But I mean, if we look at the United States, they're thinking about dismantling their educational system, so in many ways we're going backwards. But in many ways, maybe we sometimes need to sort of alarm and wake up to realize that we should be focusing on providing everyone with quality education.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 11:47

Yeah, so you've touched on quite a number of things at the moment which I'd love to explore. I'd love to explore how beautiful Amsterdam is, because, of course, I was there a few weeks ago and we were trying very hard to connect at the time. But before we do that, I really want to go back to the question, which is why is quality education important? And I think many people have an idea that education is important. But in this day and age, especially when we are awash with information, all kinds of tools now at our disposal, why is quality education still important? Just, very quickly and concisely, can you just tell us why?

Diana Chavez: 12:30

Yeah, well, education is really important because it allows us to understand and navigate the world around us in a way where we can critically think about issues that are affecting us, and I think that's something that we're missing is this critical thinking that we learn in having quality education, where something that we don't talk about as much is decolonizing academia and understanding that there are many different stories and factual ways of also learning and unlearning and relearning where we are right now. So this is why having quality education is extremely important. It allows us to have opportunities and navigate the world in different places, especially to do more work abroad as well and working with other countries and other people, especially having, for example, cross-cultural communication within education. All of this without it would be very difficult to do. So I think education is the key to having empathy in the world again.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 13:32

Yeah, yeah, it's the key to so many things and you've alluded to the fact that it unlocks so much with our minds and I love the emphasis that you put on critical thinking. And, of course, as somebody who's been involved for decades now in early intervention, as a governor in a couple of schools, I value getting quality education to children from an early age, so that's really important before their minds are fully formed. Okay, listen, you said something which I'm sure my listeners would have picked up on, which I certainly picked and interested in when you mentioned it. What do you mean by decolonizing education? Very quickly, for those who've never heard the term before, can you just give us a brief explanation of what we mean by that?

Diana Chavez: 14:18

Yeah, well, especially within anthropology, we talk about it a lot, but this is more within higher education, that when you're going to your educational system and every country has a different way of curriculum as well that you must follow, and there are certain histories that have been written through a certain narrative and perspective. However, when we think about colonizations is where the colonized comes from, right the word. That's sort of the way the stories have been told, the languages that have been used, where we say discovered, when we say explored, instead of using the correct terminology like colonizing. And so these are the history books that have been written to justify sort of some of the actions or to sort of dilute the experiences that happen, to sort of educate and say, well, yes, we did this, but it wasn't that bad because we discovered it or we found it. And so when you use this vocabulary, you're sort of told this one side narrative of how history happened. But now, because we have more voices speaking up, we have media where we're able to talk about other forms of history that were experienced, especially if we take again the United States, african Americans have a voice now they're able, especially within the media, they're able to tell their own stories. Now we're able to see films being made where you get to learn another side of history that isn't talked about, and now books are being written where you are able to understand actually this also happened and this is what happened.

Diana Chavez: 15:52

So that's part of decolonizing. Academia is understanding that we need to sort of unlearn and relearn how to use this vocabulary to talk about what actually happened, because it's very important in understanding colonialism. And many countries are doing this now where they're apologizing for their colonial past because they realize the importance of acknowledging what they did. And actually Amsterdam, not too long ago, within the past two years, has apologized for colonization. So there are many countries that still have not or refuse to do, like Spain, for example, refuses to apologize to Mexico, so much so that the current, now female president did not invite the Spanish president to her inauguration because he refuses to apologize. So you can see how relevant talking about decolonization is. However, it's a topic that many politicians like to avoid and not talk about, because it really brings to light the truth of what has happened and where we are today.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 16:57

Okay. So, Diana, I want to pick up on something you started talking about, which is about the fact that the Spanish and Mexican governments are at odds now, Because there's this mismatch between an apology and whether one feels they need to give it and one needs to receive it, and I just want you, just from your experience and just because of the kind of work you do, just explain why A something that happened so long ago, so long ago, why is it still important to apologize, even though this person may not have any direct responsibility for the actions of people in the past, or even any link to what happened, or even believe or support that what happened you know, and why it's important, on the other hand, for the people who feel they need to hear it, why is this a conversation that's important and timely?

Diana Chavez: 17:59

Yeah, I think it's interesting even in the way the question, now it's framed. It, and it's the reason why there are two sides to this conversation is that you have, on one hand, a group of people that say, well, why should we apologize for something that our ancestors or previous generations did, whereas, on the other hand, those are the apologies needed in order to repair, to heal and to move forward. If we take the context of any other countries for example, what happened with Germany during the Holocaust and the apologies and the remembrance that has happened within, that has allowed some form of contributions, some form of being able to have a different discussion, to realize how we can dehumanize people when we have this behavior and don't acknowledge. I mean, the motto from then on is never again, yet it keeps happening. So this is why it's so important to receive that apology. It's more so, not an apology per se to say what happened, but an apology to say I'm sorry that this happened, because it's so important to recognize that the countries are where they are now because of colonialism.

Diana Chavez: 19:19

We have, you know, in Mexico now the indigenous population is a minority, and that's in many countries worldwide. Look at the United States Native Americans are the minority, and so this is why it's so important to receive that apology. Even the Pope apologized for their contributions to slavery. So you know, it comes to just acknowledging that there was some wrong and some justification in dehumanizing the action and dehumanizing people and then justifying your actions in that way. So doing this apology then allows us to have a deeper discussion as to why it happened and how it's still continuing today and now what we call neocolonialism, and then so on and so forth. But I think for Mexico, it's something very heavy because it's still so relevant in our country.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 20:13

Thank you. I'd love to talk about Mexico a little bit, if that's okay. It's a beautiful, beautiful country. And just from your experience, your limited experience, if somebody wanted to visit Mexico, what would you suggest? Where would you suggest they start from? And, yeah, what would you suggest they do?

Diana Chavez: 20:35

Yeah, I think something that I always get asked is not where I should go to mexico, but is it safe to travel to mexico? And unfortunately it's a yes or no conversation that of course, a lot of people travel, uh, to mexico, but the safest places to go are, of course, the touristy places, like the one you went to in Cancun, which, of course, I think you recommend it as well, right? So of course, it's important to also see the touristist, touristic spots, because they're touristic for a reason. There's a really beautiful treasure to see there with the sightseeing, and wherever you go to Mexico, you will eat delicious food.

Diana Chavez: 21:15

But I think it's important to also go to the south of mexico, to go to yucatan or merida in these places, or oaxaca, these places that have this sort of rich indigenous history that doesn't get talked about a lot. You know, normally people do visit mexico city, but there are other cities that you can visit. It's just that it's not really talked about because there's no blogs that people make. Normally people make these blogs of these touristic places, but I think it's a little bit difficult to say because there are some zones that are not safe for tourists. Unfortunately. That's just the reality of Mexico. But I hope now, with having a female president, it becomes a much more safer place, not just for tourists, but for Mexicans altogether.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 21:58

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, we hear some horror stories. There's no whitewashing or sugarcoating it and I would say, really, you're right. For a very long time I wanted to go to Mexico, but I just didn't go because I didn't feel safe. I love to do a lot of solo travel, but I didn't think that was one place I wanted to go to alone, I have to say, and I didn't, but I had a fantastic time. There's so much to do and, like you said, the food is incredible. It's just, it really is. So, if you're a foodie, you'd enjoy it. If you like water sports, you'll love it. If you like history, you'll love it, because there's so many cultural things to do. And I would say, do stick to the places that are recommended for tourists, because I think kudos to the government, they do put a lot of effort into making sure that places that tourists visit you know the violence stay for for the most part, away from there. So Oaxaca and the other places that you mentioned are these places that are safer to visit. But volunteering.

Diana Chavez: 23:02

There's some organizations that you can sort of go to for language exchanges, for example, those that want to learn Spanish, that you can go to these organizations that are doing really incredible work with indigenous communities and to kind of bring it all back together. That's the NGO that I'm working for. We work with this branch in Mexico called Viva Mexico and they do a lot of volunteer work and they send volunteers abroad and then we receive volunteers as well and we try to send many to Mexico or Latin America. But it's not as appealing because of the safety reasons. But yeah, these are the places where I would say you can find more of that rich history. But yeah, there are so many tourism opportunities where you do find the safety, especially in Merida. This is a city that is quite popular, so it's just more where you can experience sort of this indigenous communities of Mexico.

Diana Chavez: 24:10

But the sad reality again is that even Mexicans themselves, because it's such a poor country, don't get to travel around your own country, not just for financial reasons but for safety reasons for Mexicans. So I myself haven't been able to travel around Mexico. I normally, when I go, I visit my family in Guadalajara. That's also a place I do recommend. It's where the tequila and the mariachi come from, so you can really experience that as well. But this year or next year I'm actually going to be able to explore these other areas and also something that I myself would love to do.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 24:48

Yeah Well, look, let's hope it gets safer. I'm sure lots of people would love to go Just picking up on tourism, because that again is quite controversial. Voluntourism, people privileges, going abroad to take God knows what little skill overseas and usually to make a mess of themselves and probably leave the places more dependent and less advanced than how they found it. I mean, when you talk about volunteering, what kind of opportunities are you thinking about?

Diana Chavez: 25:21

Yeah, I mean the work. Everything that I've shared with you about myself has been with the emphasis on service work and volunteer work, and I think I learned it when I did volunteer work in Thailand that I saw volunteering as the idea of helping. But then what happens is that this helping can be part of the savior complex and what's more commonly known as the white savior complex. Right, because at one point, white people were the ones that were able to go and volunteer, which was at the time called missionaries, and it's come to in different forms. But what does it mean when an ethnic minority or a person of color can go and volunteer? Is that also still considered? You know, not a white savior complex, but the savior complex? And so, right now, what we're doing with volunteering and the way that I see it, is helping communities help themselves, support themselves, empowering them, sometimes being that platform that they need in order to achieve the goals that they can't without the support of outside factors. And I got to see it firsthand in Thailand that I realized once I finished my service there. I could have continued an extra year, but I knew I had to leave because the community knew and they already knew what to do. It was just kind of having this moment of empowerment between exchanging cultures, exchanging knowledge, empowering each other to realize that actually volunteering is all about learning from each other. There's really incredible concepts of the idea of just intercultural exchanges, and then I honestly think that that's how it should be. That's what led me to volunteer.

Diana Chavez: 26:58

I wanted to show that there are other types of Americans like myself. I'm Mexican-American as much as I don't feel American. I have the accent and at least Europeans say so. Americans don't necessarily agree with my accent To them.

Diana Chavez: 27:13

I have a Spanish accent, but I realized the importance of making sure that when you are volunteering, that we talk about, yet again, decolonizing volunteering, which is actually a project that we worked on with the NGO that I'm currently with, which is actually a project that we worked on with the NGO that I'm currently with, because, unfortunately, volunteerism has become a popular trend and you have people posting pictures with children in Africa, right, that's a very common picture that you see, but the reality is that some of those trips that are being done or those volunteering that's being done, connection is being created. It's just. Are you being performative? You know it's more. Those are the types of conversation we should have. Should we be promoting this? What is the point of taking a picture with the children? I think that's a bigger conversation rather than volunteering, because it takes away from what you're actually trying to do. So it really is something really enriching and empowering to do, to be able to volunteer in this critical way as well.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 28:11

Yeah, I agree with you. Obviously, those dehumanizing practices are just a no-no. I also firmly believe that if you don't have the skills that are needed, just don't go. I mean you're very accomplished, I can imagine that you would add value. Just don't go. I mean you're very accomplished, I can imagine that you would add value. But there are people who go who would, if you like, be mediocre at best in their own countries, but overseas manage to go and, just you know, give a different impression and they have very little to offer. Anyway, to be honest, anyone who really has a good heart and doesn't know if or not whatever they have is good enough, I would say if you've got the money, send it. More than likely the people will value that much more than something that's not really adding value. Thank you so much. I love that.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 29:01

Do you want to tell us? Because you straddle two different cultures, maybe even more than two, even you're currently living in the Netherlands. Why don't you tell us about the Netherlands? If somebody wanted to visit, where should they start from? If it was their first time? Or maybe somebody who's only been to Amsterdam? What else could they see? What could they experience? What could they do?

Diana Chavez: 29:22

Yeah, I mean there's so much to do because it's a very unique city and also compared to the rest of europe, um, it's a, it's a city and just a country that's more distinct, whereas some other countries you could say, ah, this looks very similar, uh, between france and and and um spain, for example, like there's some, some housing, some architecture that's very similar. But in the netherlands it's very different, and especially um amsterdam city, I mean the houses are are. People that come to visit me say it looks like Disneyland or Disney World, and so they're very beautiful. But there's so much rich history that you can learn about sort of the structure of the houses or how the Netherlands is practically built on water, especially Amsterdam. So there's so much to do with going on boat tours in the canals, also going to the museums, going to the Rijksmuseum Rindbrandhuis.

Diana Chavez: 30:17

There's so much to do with so much rich history, about learning about dikes, for example. That's something that the Netherlands is known for. And of course, the cheese. The cheese is something very popular here and also just understanding Dutch culture and you know they're very efficient and practical people and it's really shown in their infrastructure, from biking to just the way that the houses and the trains, everything is structured. It's a very practical city where things just make sense. So I think anyone that just comes just looking looks beautiful.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 30:50

It's probably one of the cities in Europe that I've visited the most. I think my first time I was struck by how many bicycles they had, and they say there are more bikes per capita. It's the bike capital of Europe, isn't it? There are so many there. It's unbelievable. Yeah, because they take that seriously. There's something else that's you know. Certainly in the past they were very well known for, or two things the red light district and the marijuana. Do you want to speak a little bit to that?

Diana Chavez: 31:25

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really powerful. I think another take that you can do on the red light district is that you can take a red light district tour to understand how it functions and how it works. And prostitution is legal. The sex workers there, to an extent, are of course protected. However, if you do pass through there, the women that you see are not dutch, they're immigrants. There are people from other countries, especially from africa and latin america.

Diana Chavez: 31:58

Though there are rights, there are still some sort of gray areas where there can be improvements, but I mean in in my own personal opinion, I wish they didn't exist, where women didn't have to. But there are some women that feel empowered by it and um, and, and of course there should be some protection behind it. So I'm glad that is a protection, because the statistics are one in four men have participated in that, so it's a very high statistic for the red light district. They're actually talking about moving it away from the heart of the city and moving it to another part of amsterdam, and there's a big protest happening now with people don't want that, and and so I think, yeah, there's so much history that you can learn and educate yourself rather than just walking and seeing, and also in terms of the marijuana. Um, it's because, especially last year, it became a bit out of hand where there was a lot of British tourists that were coming and sort of causing a lot of ruckus, and the city of Amsterdam actually made a video that went viral that said please don't come here.

Diana Chavez: 33:01

And it's a really open question of is it discrimination or not? But then many other countries sort of agreed open question of is it discrimination or not? But then many other countries that sort of agreed, but uh, now it's a bit more controlled, where you're not supposed to smoke outside of these coffee shops is what you call them. But people still do it. It's socially acceptable. I mean, if you look at the statistics of addiction to marijuana in the netherlands is not as high as one would think, and that's also because sometimes when something is available, more often than not, people tend to be more responsible with it rather than when it's forbidden or illegal. Right, you sort of have this tendency of why is it and why can't I do it, and so there's a bit of a rebellious behind it. But here in Amsterdam and in the Netherlands it's just sort of normalized that it's not a bad thing. It's just something that some people do or engage with, and it's not something you do frequently, and even if you do, it's just no one really cares.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 33:58

And you know, like you said, maybe it's not catering for the locals.

Diana Chavez: 34:04

Yes, they're trying to find ways to have tourists stop, because that was never the idea. I think as well.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 34:10

It was more for for locals to be able to to do what they want freely, but it's not the case anymore yeah, listen, I think for anyone who's even curious about the netherlands, you've really helped to shine a little bit of a light to that. On that and um for mexico, I really appreciate having this conversation with you because we've been able to dive deeper into some other really important things and your work is really important. Diana, I want to thank you for taking the time to chat with me and I hope that we'll be able to meet the next time I'm over there yeah, of course.

Diana Chavez: 34:48

please let me know and I'll be able to take you on a decolonial tour, which is a very popular thing now here in Amsterdam. I recommend, lastly, to go to look at the Black Archives is the name of this organization who does decolonial tours in Amsterdam. So again, another way and lenses to look at travels nowadays. That sounds so good. We'll make sure that we put the links to all of these, so again another way and lenses to look at travels nowadays.

AmickyCarol Akiwumi MBE: 35:08

That sounds so good. We'll make sure that we put the links to all of these. So yeah, thank you and all the best with your work and anyone who wants to connect with you. I'm sure we'll find the details in this podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of World Changes Podcast. I hope you're feeling as inspired as I am by today's conversation. Remember the power to create changes within each of us. If you were inspired by today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, share it with a friend and leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word and inspire even more world changers. And be sure to follow us on social media at World Changers PC for updates, behind the scenes content and more inspiring stories. Until next time, keep exploring, keep making a difference and remember you can be a world changer.

Humanise Live: 36:10

The World Changes podcast is produced by Humanized Live and presented by Amiki Carroll. Visit theavocadofoundationorg to find out more about how the Avocado Foundation is tackling global inequality through education, stewardship and financial literacy.